SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

• Ocell
  The new Solidworks setup caught me off guard at first, and though I've since gotten used to it, I'm still a bit annoyed at having to switch tabs so frequently. It's nice that there's the option to switch back, and I imagine that most serious professionals have a workstation display that's large enough to accommodate multiple toolbars.
  
  Your comment about Adobe and Firefox got me thinking, and then I realized the factor that keeps them from accepting the ribbon, they are cross platform applications. As long as these modeling programs stay Windows exclusive, I think they are much more likely to fall in line with the moves Microsoft makes in the UI arena, whether benefitial or not. I imagine it's an attempt at providing customers with the most consistent UI possible. At least they are all doing it in very similar ways, it may make switching between software packages much easier. My head still reels when I switch from working in 3DsMax into AliasStudio, the UI's are so dramatically different.
• Josh M
  Good point Ocell. switching between software packages is easier if the commands are structured the same, but if the workflow in the program is different, I think it's better to have options. For example, I'm glad I can switch it off in SolidWorks and I'm glad I have the option of accessing a command directly on the screen with the Shortcut Bar.
• aldean
  I'm not a fan of this, but for slightly different reasons. I get the whole, I want it to look like Excel and Word thing, but I'm not convinced its the best UI for 3D based work. I thought Ocell's comment was interesting, about making "switching between software packages much easier." I can't see that happening, aside from the layout of the UI, the rest of the elements still differ dramatically.. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old dude..
• Josh M
  For sure Al, I don't think it is the best UI. I like accessing commands in the work area. After using 2008 I started wishing programs like Photoshop had a shortcut bar for commands I don't use via the keyboard. I like that SolidWorks went this way. I use SolidWorks mostly, so that may sound biased, but I also use Word and Excel and there is a difference in workflow.
• TX80
  Ribbon bar is horrible. whenever i can switch it off and go with the classic UI im all for it.
• Marijn
  Microsoft made this possible so there using it I like it for once.
  The reason there following Microsoft is just because they can so.
  A friend of my that was graduated from computer science told me this: Microsoft just gives them design templates for there programs and they just use it. What I am waiting for is when are some 3D cad programs going to be on linux?? And for people that don't like the ribbon get used to it or stop using windows because this is the next standard of windows.
  
  Here some ideas they could try:
  Mouse gestures.
  Putting the s menu around the mouse and 70% transparent until you mouse goes over it.
• Matt Lombard
  I agree the ribbon is disorganized and takes up too much space. Funny people are just now noticing this.
  
  Unfortunately, software developers follow MS like a bunch of mindless lemmings. With the ribbon and Vista, MS has run off the cliff, and everyone has followed them.
  
  At least SW had the sense not to implement the actual MS Ribbon, but to develop their own that they can tweak as needed. I can neither confirm nor deny that a future version which may or may not be in beta currently has enough options to be customizable enough to use. The Command Manager is a great idea, and the interface can be set up with the Command Manager to run efficiently. There are a couple of things I wish SW would implement, one being the ability to use dual Command Managers, one for features and one for tools. I always keep the sketch toolbar off the CM because I need to use it so frequently, it would cause too much tab switching.
• Josh M
  I can neither confirm or deny it either :) That's a cool idea about dual managers. That would really help with the tab switching. Even though I don't prefer the command manager right now, I like testing it out and trying new workflows.
• Rod_Uding
  Since we have not upgraded to SW 2008 or 2009 yet, I cannot comment on the new interface yet. Seeing the screen shots of the new "Ribbon" interface adopted by the other vendors, it does seem to be trying to cram way more stuff into a small area than is desirable. I do like the suggestion of two (2) Command Managers.
• Matt Lombard
  Rod,
  
  Since 2009 is still in Beta and thus under NDA, I can't really comment on it either.
  
  Although hypothetically speaking, if 2009 has any interface at all, since Jeff Ray said his idea of a perfect interface was a blank screen ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3sRBDDryOI ), IF SW still has an interface in 09, I could neither confirm nor deny that it is a big breath of fresh air.
• Rod_Uding
  Good catch on my loss of thinking on 2009. Atter getting a couple of emails asking for beta testers you think I could remember that. I may have something to do with working 7 days a week for the last month and a half.
• SWPriest
  Well, I'm not a fan of any "space eater" ribbon or toolbar, CAD, Office, or other apps. I used a lot my fingers - there are so many advantages using fingers... errr... shortcut keys...and so painful sometimes :-). I need more additional keys on my keyboard.
  Really, how they measure the "productivity" factor? They used "ergonomics" specialists to "design" this ribbon? They used their own employee for this?
  
  And, yes, Marijn's idea about mouse gestures is a great one.
  3D CAD and Linux? He, he, he, he - good joke. I have dreams about that, but one SW Europe's HQ trainer reply when I asked about SW migration from windoze to Linux "SW will make this step when Linux will make money, real money.” So...
  
  Matt, you are my favorite SW Guru but I disagree with you: Command Manager is waste of time and space. Touch screens, VR, data gloves, trackballs, mouse gestures, shortcut keys, anything but CM.
  
  Regarding differences between different 3D CAD interfaces, I don't know I feel that lately they tend to have "suchlike" toolbars and icons. I mean, 10 years ago was such differences between SW and Pro/E interfaces, but now WF4's interface is quite familiar to me.
• Matt Lombard
  I think if you saw some alternatives for CM set up, you might relent a little. SW has soooo many tools, and if you use more than extrude and revolve and don't like the drop downs, you almost have to use the CM. The CM in 08 is completely unusable, utter waste of time and space. I like it in 07, and 09 works better than 08.
  
  I agree about the hotkeys. Hotkeys are my favorite, and I easily run out of key combinations or memory to remember all of them.
• SWPriest
  Matt,
  I jump over the fence.
  You're right partially: I'm using a lot of macros to simplify my work but there are so many project types that I have to open sometimes too many toolbars. I prefer to "assemble" personalized toolbars instead of using CM although. But, when you have to work on long term projects (6-24 moths) I think a toolbar with many macros and assigned hotkeys is better than CM. Or if you spent more time on Excel configs and functions than on modeling CM is useless.
  
  I would like to play with 08 and 09, but I already have headache because of using 05, 06, and 07 with different SP’s on the same PC... a real nightmare. This is off topic but how do you manage when you have to work on different projects, with different SW releases, on the same PC? I didn't find any PDM capable to work with SW2005 Off Pro SP3.1 and SP5.0, SW2006 Off Pro SP3.1 and SP4.1, SW2007 Off Pro SP1.0 and SP3.1 simultaneously. Any idea?
• Matt Lombard
  Wow, different SPs? Your customer has stuff that specific? That's crazy.
  
  I haven't worked with it for a few releases, but PDMWorkgroup can work with various versions, but you might get in trouble with SPs. I have no idea how you'd distinguish between files in different SPs other than a custom prop.
  
  I use 07, 08 and 09 for projects, but I'm always on the latest SP of each.
  
  Sounds like a nightmare. They don't let you cross any bridges on your drive home, do they?
• SWPriest
  No Matt, they are different customers, each working on its own or customized PDM.
  With some we use a thin web client to reach their PDM and basically we work with their servers. Each has its own spec and standard for models, assemblies and drawings and I have to set Design Checker, start parts, paths to symbols, notes, color swatches, etc, etc. I've found an excel table with macros on web to get and set all SW hidden params, but this work only for one SP. I have to play with registries and that's really painful, because I am Mechanical Engineer, not an IT guru.
  We work with many shared spreadsheets for projects management, but this is nit error free method.
  Anyway, how do you manage to work with 07, 08, and 09 for projects? Do you have a tool, a method, a public secret :-)?
• Matt Lombard
  I have some customers with "special needs", and some with no CAD at all. So I get to pick what I use if they don't have any CAD or if their suppliers aren't using SW. I get sub-subcontracted sometimes and the end customer is very far away, and harder to stare down.
  
  I have one customer who doesn't have SW, but he has suppliers that have it, and some suppliers have 07, some 08 and some I have to give IGES files, so I do several different outputs for this one guy.
  
  Since most of what I do is individual parts, I don't have a lot of really problematic file management situations. I actually just use good ol' Windows Explorer with searches and sorts by date. My customers typically have no PDM, so I have to send them files with dates in the names to serve as file mgt.
  
  I know I preach against this method, but this works for me because the vast majority of my parts have no external relations.
  
  As far as installations, all of the software works well together, except for sometimes. When I installed a recent alpha version, it hosed my 07 and 08 installations on one computer. Usually different versions play nicely together, and can even be run simultaneously.
• peak
  Hey no clues for why all CAD developers are moving to the ribbon bar system, but now as I am using all the latest versions, I feel less of confusion while working, but do get bored of watching the same UI. But for your IGES problem, I feel you should SpaceClaim. Try if it solves your problem, I am still evaluating it as I find it interesting having common enviroment for CAD and CAE. will surely wait for your reply, to know if you find any loop hole or drawbacks of any of these softwares
• Josh M
  managing SP's!? good night man. that sounds insane. no doubt you have a headache. I would at least keep different versions on different computers for that kind of rowdiness. If you can't... I would make sure you have different libraries and 'in work' directories for each.
  
  Long term projects do not seem considered by software companies much huh? It would be the last thing on my mind in development. It may be good for businesses to factor software and hardware changes/upgrades into the job so that it doesn't impact schedule. That's is a really good topic, perhaps for another time.
• SWPriest
  Insane indeed... I hardly wait an article about this...
  There are many other problems with different SP’s than installing. For example did you noticed that “Close” and “Help” buttons on “What’s wrong” window displayed after an unsuccessful rebuild are in a position on SW2005 and switched between them on SW2006 and later?
  
  Regarding project management: of course I have to set paths and folders for each project with access rules for each user and user groups.
• tengle
  SW2008 was a pain to use until I changed the S keyboard shortcut to Insert and mapped that to my spaceball.
• burhop
  Just wanted to point out that NX is on Linux now and I recall some discussion about CATIA doing this as well (Maybe one of the Dassault folks can say?)
  
  Also, NX and CATIA went in a different way with their UI. NX is very customizable. Here is a link for NX5 although it may be a bit out-of-date since NX6 was released
  http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/cam...
• Ivan
  I've always hated the ribbon bar... even in MS Office. Love using the shortcut bar and many keyboard shortcuts for SW.
• Mr D
  I switched from Office 07 back to Office 2003 because I hated the ribbon so much, so I hope any company using it leaves the option to disable it. They're crazy if they don't!!! At 1900 by 1200 do I really need tabs? Absolutely NOT. Don't waste my time making me look for hidden buttons, since when did hiding things make sense.
• Asmodeus
  I actually like the ribbon bar. Rather I've come to like it and have adopted it as my default. However, I'd rather like to see these cad programs optimize their codes to work better and faster instead of bloat to include these GUI's. It's rather pointless, but I suspect this is market driven crap.
• Matt Lombard
  I doubt it's "market driven". The "market" isn't asking for ribbons. It's just developer trends (fads), and the assumption that "newer" means "better".
  
  I have yet to see anyone who says they like it actually quantify why they like it with specific details. The reason I don't like it is because it is easier to scan a single row of related information (icons on a toolbar) than a 2D patch of mixed text and image data of different sizes. I suspect the concept was developed from tag clouds, where words are assembled in no special spacial order, but given size prominence, and your eye is drawn to the largest items first. Making the largest ribbon icon the most commonly used is great unless you use something other than the most commonly used stuff.
• Josh M
  "...it is easier to scan a single row of related information."
  
  that pretty much sums it up Matt.
• Marijn
  The ribbon gives more information faster and it is faster accessible so I really loves it and you aint seing me on office 2003 ever again i rather use open office then office 2003.
  And the normal oldskool drop down menu's are here since 1983 it is the first and only graphic interface windows ever had. So that they finally reviewed it is pretty damn good :).
• LP
  Hi all
  
  I came from the Solid Edge world. Has far has i am concern, i believe that the ribbon is a good thing.
  
  The ribbon is fully licence from Microsoft. I believe the developper didn't tweak or make their own ribbon like others.
  
  Has everyone know SEwST introduce non linear modeling paradigm in it's product line.
  
  This new workflow in ST fit nicely with the ribbon philosophy. The logic grouping of function folow a good workflow / best practice. That does not mean that the fluent interface is perfect. Few nice addition could be welcome.
  
  I also believe this stay in the tradition of our interface philosophy.
  
  Matt..... i once post on your web site link to article about SE interface (now i could say the old one :):):)) look back at our blog article regarding interface
  
  On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 1 of 3
  On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 2 of 3
  On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 3 of 3
  
  I am not THE refenrence when it come time to SW but from what i have see it seem that the SW developper use the ribbon concept instead of licensing it and throw function at it on top of each other.
  
  I really see different philosophy between SE and SW and IV even if first look seem to give the impression of the same ribbon.
• Bruce Buck
  Well, going against the grain here. I too like... well maybe better said don't dislike... the ribbon. I DON'T like the inefficiency of having to switch tabs, that I'll agree, but I do like having visual access to many commands that I might not otherwise think to use (talking about MS Office here), plus I love the pushpin for files I frequently need to open. And it does establish some consistency between programs.
  
  Regarding SW, I like the fact that you can get around the tabs annoyance using the right-click menus, shortcut menus, and keyboard shortcuts. Once I started using the 08 (and Office 07), I really started to like it and adapt to it quickly.
• _jaro
  Tne new ribbon bar is the next step in the UI development and it is fantastic. Yes, I am an old time user and I was confused for a second, but when I saw Office 2007 for the first time, I wishes for new new interface for all of the applications and know it is happening. Thanks a lot.
• nea
  _jaro is absolutely right. It is a few moments to get used to it, but than .. you never want to go back from the ribbon anymore. I absolutely love the ribbon :-)

←Previous post:

Next post:→