So what do ya think, is SolidWorks ‘old lady CAD’ out for a stroll only to trip over a small grain of feature-based modeling, tumbling face-first into a small ditch mumbling, “hebber, hebber..” Hmmmm. I see some CAD vendors lookin’ on in anticipation.
They may not be tumbling, but some people are probably wondering what they’re up too with the whole direct editing technology. Deelip Menezes ponders if it’s all just Inventor Fusion and SolidWorks Confusion.
He states thoughts I’ve often wondered. So what is it? Is SolidWorks lagging or cooking up some history-free design of their own?
Dassault prefers that SolidWorks (a company that it owns) pays hefty royalties to Siemens (its competitor) for every license and subscription of SolidWorks that it sells, as opposed to earning royalties from SolidWorks (a company that it owns) for letting SolidWorks use its V6 technology.”
The V6 Technology is Dassault’s own brand of direct editing tech. used with their Catia line of products.
The competition has their own products to move them back into the era of direct modeling. PTC has Co/Create, Siemens has SolidEdge/NX with SyncTec, SpaceClaim has it’s own style and now Autodesk has Inventor Fusion. All have solid ideas about modeling parts quicker and easier. For some reason though, I have my doubts that SolidWorks is just sitting back or trying to catch up, or falling into that dirty run-off.
What are we gonna see? Are they focused on improving code and performance at the moment? From what I have seen of SolidWorks 2010, there’s more direct manipulation of features. Will we see a branding like Synchronous Technology or just be pleasantly surprised when 2010 launches? Whatever it is, you may be sketching less and clicking features a little more often.
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{ 15 comments }
We've been through the whole direct modeling discussion already. I'd bet that Solidworks is adding to what they already have, but that new development would depend completely on V6, and who knows what's gonna happen there. You can call Instant3D direct modeling if you like, even though it's not. The Move Face command has been around for several releases, and does some direct modeling type work, but SW doesn't have anything like the rules that Synchronous Tech has, although I can't say I was that very impressed with it.
The V6 speculation is something you can't get a straight answer from SW about. This is another discussion that's been around for a while. I'm not even sure where V6 is in terms of real, released software. You're still hearing a lot about V5. I think if SW moves forward into Direct Modeling beyond improved move face, it will take V6.
Deelip is a smart guy, and has a lot of inside contacts in the industry, and he is often right about stuff, but I'd bet against him on this issue. SolidWorks may expand their offering by improving Move Face and hooking it up to the Instant3D interface, but I don't think they are going to follow the others down the Direct Modeling rebranding rabbit hole. Even if you take Paul Hamilton's eloquence into account, I say direct editing is not going to topple the industry.
I think you have to use it to understand its limitations. Its cool, yes, and in demos, a wizard can make it look freaking brilliant, but on the ground where the rest of us live, it's just another flawed software concept.
yeah man, i know this has been beat around quite a bit. all of us in the thick of it grow mildly tired about it all, but I'm also wondering what others out there may be thinking… or if they care or if they're even interested. My bet, they just want something that works (another discussion we go around with.)
anyway, thanks for the insight and posts you've put up about it. Now watch some 'free' modeler come out and blow everyone away. ha.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but something to keep in mind is that DS does not consider V6 to be a technology, but rather a platform. There are new technologies in CATIA that were released in concert with the V6 launch, including the editing features everyone is talking about, but the DS/CATIA naming system varies from the SolidWorks naming system.
That's why you see reference to things like CATIA V5R19, which is the 19th release of the V5 platform, and V6R2009, which is the 2009 release of the V6 platform. To Matt's point, there are still people using the V4 and V5 platforms, and will probably continue because their organizations aren't ready for the workflow changes that V6 enables. For example, the collaborative work environment is as much a part of V6 as the CATIA modeling capabilities.
I'm hoping we'll just be pleasantly surprised! Personally, the Move Face tool and the like have been about all I've ever needed as far as direct editing goes. The enhancements that were shown on Wednesday of SolidWorks World 2009 will only make them better.
It would be nice to have access to tools to do some freeform-type work (ala Cosmic Blobs) up front, but I'm not sure that I would have much need for them.
I just want tools that work to help make our jobs easier.
I'm a long time Pro|E user and an occasional SW user. I saw the big fuss over CoCreate at last years PTC|User event in Long Beach.
I'm not impressed.
I don't care about how fast I can create the initial model nearly as much as how fast I can change it, over and over again as the design and the specs evolve.
With parametric modelers like Pro|E and Solidworks, the design intent is baked into the model's structure, making alter edits easier, faster and more predictable, it would seem
it makes sense. we have some customers that still want v4. They don't want to switch platforms. That can be viewed as a reason for why solidworks competition won't suddenly (or ever?) take over the solidworks base – It would be a big platform switch. much bigger than, say, if solidworks slowly implemented direct editing features.
it would be pretty cool if solidworks just came out with 'the next version' (sw10, sw11) and it was still solidworks, just built on V6, with no one none the wiser, with a few of the V6 features. I say this cause like Deelip mentions, solidworks using parasolid just doesn't make sense.
I mostly work with bodies in this regard. A couple things I wish would change is the
sketching – I'm drawing a box, let me go straight to extruding it. same with the other sketch features. at least an option for this would be cool.
numeric input – make the dims stay there or make them attached to the solid. either is better than having to put them in again.
dims on solid – I can put ref dims on solids, link them in properties, assign them to views, but have to go back the sketch to change them.
These three things would go along way toward making modeling in SolidWorks much quicker. ya think? should do a post on these me thinks.
Thanks for the insight Doug. I see a lot of example done with parts. but not any large top-down assemblies type of models with lots of inter-related parts. I'm sure relations can be set up or something, but here's where I find it very useful to have a way to go back to a certain point to redefine how something acts. like you say, easier, faster for making later edits.
sometimes I'm hope I'm missing something, but I'd like to see some direct modeling approaches to large assembly top down design.
As a CoCreate suffer-er (?) I think this direct edit/history free thing is a good idea poorly implemented. I had complaints about Solidworks but I'd give almost anything to be using it again at the job I have now. I really think the instant 3D command Soliworks has is as close to getting it right as I've seen.
History free is just too unpredictable. I've mirrored castings prior to adding fillets that would fillet on one side but not the other or after the fact if you want to remove a fillet somebody else put in being told to take a hike.
Don't get me wrong there is a huge potential to direct editing, but you need some history with it to make it usable.
As far as your sketching wish, you can do this now for extrusions. You just have to change your workflow a little…
On a new part, start the Extrude command instead of Sketch, then choose plane, Sketch, and wah-lah, Extrusion. Start another Extrude command, choose a face, Sketch, Extrude. Is this what you meant?
Not sure I understand on the numeric input… You can show feature and reference dimensions, even selectively; is this not good enough?
Dims on solid – If you double click a feature in the graphics area or FeatureManager, the dimensions will appear and can be changed. No need to go back into sketch just to change dimensions. Am I missing something?
I really don't care about new features or history based. All I want is stability. Spend some time fixing the things that have been broken since I started using Solidworks, and you'll be beating off customers with a stick. Start by getting auto-recover to work. It has never worked for me, not even once. Then get me to the point where I don't need it. I don't have any other software that I EXPECT to crash daily, or that I need to do backups with a religous ferver. Making multiple backups in multiple directories so the mates aren't corrupted and fully defined in all of them for no reason, gahhhhhhhh!!!!
OK, I feel better now….
Hey Brian, thanks. Let me explain them a little.
I kinda of simplified the first one. Selecting a feature first is a great way to do it. I'm talking about, not sure how to best explain it, combining both steps maybe, but still having sketches created? but the features are created and adapt to the sketch as you create it? that probably confuses things even more.
The second is an options for sketches on creation. dims will automatically show up, but they don't stay there. I haven't found any option to keep them.
If you have instant3d on you only need to single click, but I'd like to be able to dimension the solid and set up relations that way, instead of just in the sketches.
I suppose it looking at these combined together. I like having sketches to manipulate the solid, but I keep wondering why we cant do all this with 3D geometry. Kind of eliminating a step. Am I making any sense at all?
thanks for the comment!
Even if SolidWorks remains tight-lipped about its future plans for direct editing, I doubt its executive team would sit by idly while its competitors are forging ahead with this modeling paradigm. The reason a lot of folks have been getting excited about direct editing lately is because the way it's implemented in Solid Edge with Synchronous Technology and SpaceClaim proves you can do many of the same modeling functions a lot faster and easier with this method.
Here's something else to consider. For many in the younger generation, early exposure to 3D modeling will mostly likely come from a free program like SketchUp, which teaches them to create shapes by pushing and pulling faces and edges. Naturally, when they're ready to migrate to professional packages, they'll feel a greater degree of comfort with direct editing than with feature-based or history-based modeling.
I know some folks will disagree with me, but I'd go out on a limb and say that a CAD vendor who thinks direct modeling is a fad risks being left behind.
Hey Kenneth. Thanks. With my 3yo growing up fast and getting really interested in computers and graphic interfaces, it's interesting to see what is intuitive to him and what he's learning to expect. Watching him really makes me think about future tech and the difference between what I grew up on and what he's growing up on. crazy huh.
Hey Kenneth. Thanks. With my 3yo growing up fast and getting really interested in computers and graphic interfaces, it's interesting to see what is intuitive to him and what he's learning to expect. Watching him really makes me think about future tech and the difference between what I grew up on and what he's growing up on. crazy huh.
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