So there are a few things you won’t see in SolidWorks 2010. No big deal? Well, another one of those things is no CATIA-SolidWorks translation.
Jeff Ray, CEO of SolidWorks, commented in a recent interview with Ralph Grabowski that, “Customers are fed up with not being able to share data between Catia and SolidWorks.” Are you? If not, you may be after you see the following, and you may not even care about CATIA translation. Deelip Menezes reveals the game being played by Dassault and why the users, are the big losers.
The Dassault Systemes Joke
Why is it a joke? Because other CAD companies that can translate CATIA data are actually laughing. Deelip lays out the reason too. He knows what’s going on, because his company SYCODE creates the largest amount of Data Exchange solutions you could ever imagine. Read the entire post and comments to see just how much of a joke this is. Here are the highlights:
- Spatial, another company owned by Dassault Systemes, has a product called 3D InterOp.
- 3D InterOp’s CATIA reader reads CATIA files and creates corresponding ACIS entities.
- all [SoldiWorks] needs to do is license the CATIA component of 3D InterOp from Spatial and SolidWorks will be able to get rich 2D and 3D content (not just dumb solids) from CATIA files
- Dassault Systems allows Spatial to offer its CATIA libraries to companies like SpaceClaim, IronCAD and KeyCreator among others.
- the only MCAD software that cannot read CATIA files is SolidWorks.
- Even Adobe Acrobat Pro Extended, a software that is not even a CAD system, can read CATIA files.
The Reality is Sooooo Sad
That last point is real. I use Adobe Acrobat 3D to not only open and view CATIA files (large ones I might add) but I also use it to convert them to a Parasolid format that can be read by SolidWorks. I also use SpaceClaim to do the same thing and that works even smoother. So, why do SolidWorks users need a translator if they can just use other tools? Maybe we’re just freakin’ out for nothing and it’s just a small minority raising a ruckus for nothing.
The real annoyance is simple. To the users, SolidWorks and CATIA are the same company and it doesn’t makes sense that CATIA works better with other 3D platforms. Jeff finished his Ralph finished Jeff’s thought above by saying, ‘At some point, a translator will be delivered.’ Why would he say that?
Matt Lombard asks in a related post, “is Jeff Ray just trying to dance a political tight rope by expressing real customer frustration while lighting a small fire under Dassault?” – My hope, yes. I’m one of the frustrated customers. I know others who are. Fire lit Dassault. Your freakin’ move.
Update:A message I received mentioned the difference between a ‘Translator’ and ‘Native Interoperability’ – they are indeed two very different things when you get down to it. Translation simply bring geometry in. Bringing in a Native file with features, PIM and sketches is just that. My thought, translation would due at the very least. There would be wild fanfare for native interoperability. Either way, Dassault is capable of allowing either or both.
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{ 21 comments }
Hi Josh,
I too am angry over the news and I do not make my living with any program or product. So it does hardly affect me at all but when I promote SolidWorks there is a lot of competition out there and it is a harder sell sort to speak. I'm pushing it hard using my influence on the school curriculum advisory council. CATIA is the big adobted brother of SolidWorks and when it comes to interoperability there simply isn't any direct method. Interestng to note that NX2 has complete exchange abilities with it's smaller brother SolidEdge. No misshaps there when used in large industries. I was told that not every seat that engineers use has to be the more expensive NX2. Many only have to use the SolidEdge to do things in but can export it right into it's bigger brother. Terrible circumstances here and it should be corrected for all concerned. Bye.
Josh,
the “At some point, a translator will be delivered” bit was outside of quotes. So to me this means that it was Ralph's paraphrase of something else Jeff said, but Ralph didn't quote exactly. It could also be conjecture on Ralph's part, but I don't think there is any other conjecture in the interview.
I'm hoping for a translator too, but I'm not holding my breath. This sounds like one of those deals where they give us something they think we should be happy with as a compromise, like the Catia Graphics Files.
Does Adobe Acrobat Pro Extended handle v4 files?
Thanks, updated. I've been unable to even open CGR files in SolidWorks 2009. Ended up using Acrobat 3D again.
Hopefully the compromise will at least open a view of the file.
yep, It will open the Catia v4 3D files. I've also opened CGR files as well. http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatproextende...
Thanks Josh! I am currently downloading a 30 trial. Good timing with this article. We were just evaluating several, much more expensive solutions.
The last company I worked for, our parent company was in Germany, and used Catia. My boss had me look into the matter, and I ran into the same roadblock/runaround. No direct translator. Craziness.
Josh: “other CAD companies that can translate CATIA data are actually laughing”
Oh yeah. They are laughing all right. Check out this comment on my blog: http://www.deelip.com/?p=464&cpage=1#comment-1186
Note: Kubotek's products use 3D InterOp from Spatial to read/write CATIA files.
I read his comment very differently! I read this as a very well placed piece of marketing… Just look at the stir this simple comment has made, look at how much has been written about this. Won't everyone be so surprised if this comes out in 2010? Won't everyone have to then be so pleasantly surprised and positive with DS when they are typically so negative with DS?
My bet it Jeff has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and has done a great bit of social marketing…
Of course man! That's a good way of looking at it Chris. I've kinda wondered if, come release day, there will an extra option in the Save As… box. Either for CATIA or for a previous version of SolidWorks.
There were actually a lot of good topics in that interview to pounce on. 'No direct editing modeling' – even though they have a new 'direct editing' tab in solidworks 2010; Keyboard and mouse being replaced; rewriting software to be OS independent – all great topics to just go nuts over. The SW-CATIA one just shot to the top right away.
Brings up an interesting market position Spatial has. They could get more revenue from a bunch of cad companies/translator services licensing the software to go after Dassault's own brands, than 'giving' it to SolidWorks. Whatcha think of that? If Soldworks and Catia can share each others files, does that impact your business?
I think some of the reaction is just like shooting fish in a barrel… it si just to easy. Is this lack of “save_as” or lack of “translation” really a problem? For me I don't really see this as a real issue. The reason I say this is the fact that this problem has been around for so long, people have figured out how to work with it as well design project management is done around interfaces which is typically where you deploy different CAD systems. Certain when you are build a new wahtever that fits in a plane it would be nice to have the plane geometry to work around, but does it really need to be fully featured information in SW if you are not going to change it?
To this point there have been two people who think the lack of a SW-Catia translator is not a problem.
And they are both sales/marketing people.
That says that it's a problem.
I'll be willing to bet that you've never used Catia data in any format. It sounds like you are completely unfamiliar with the “experience” of moving data from Catia to SolidWorks.
People get around it, but it's extra work. And don't forget that OUR software supplier is doing this to us INTENTIONALLY. When something is such a blatant screw job, you bet it's easy to criticize.
More often than not (at least in my case) the data is needed for reference, so no, full feature data isn't needed. yep, the problem has been around a while, but it's still dang annoying, even with the work around. but that brings up another thought. Say SolidWorks makes a translator, but people still prefer the workaround because a file comes in smaller or something. Ha!
Matt I have done this. As well as working with Catia data I have also built translators for it. As josh points out below, in many cases the work around is better than the real feature based data… What I think woud be a better feature and something I am surprised is not pushed more is the ability to have Catia data in SW as background data and vice versa, as this would better support the use case for data sharing across systems… Don't forget that everything they do or do not do with the product is intentional.
Chris Williams: “What I think woud be a better feature and something I am surprised is not pushed more is the ability to have Catia data in SW as background data”
That is precisely what the CATIA Graphics format (CGR) does. A CGR file contains the lightweight representation of the solid model (basically a mesh) and can be placed in a SolidWorks part or assembly to be used as reference. For example, if a CATIA user has designed an engine and a SolidWorks user needs design a foundation for it, the CATIA user can send a CGR file which the SolidWorks user would use as a reference to model his foundation.
SolidWorks can already read CGR files and write them as well.
One thing that's equally as irritating is that there's a file format that could shift data between SolidWorks and Catia (Catia already reads SolidWorks parts and assemblies, natively but without feature retention) and that's 3dxml.
There's a format that DS claims to be open, but there's some serious restrictions in what can be done. At it's best, 3Dxml will output very clean surface data in a very compact file format. and yes. SolidWorks can output 3dxml files, BUT at the lowest level. Assembly structure is retained but using a pretty standard tesellated polymesh (essentially the CGR geometry).
If you look at what Catia can output, you can get good clean geometry out using the higher level, surface based version. Why can't SolidWorks do that? Madness. Political Madness.
There are multiple options here and none of them (or at least, the very basic low-level options) are being used.
Will things change? I doubt it, until it's in the interests of Dassault to make the change. Matt's comment about it being a problem with his “software supplier” isn't going to cut it. Simply because higher powers are at work here..
Sad. But true. Because that's how these businesses are run. Users requirements are not always at the top of the list. And the odd thing with Dassault, in comparison with many other CAD vendors, is that you can't even buy into the company as a shareholder and try to force change that way. Why? Because they're family owned and that gives the company the ability to things that don't make sense from a user perspective.
I've never had much luck with 3Dxml, except for viewing. I don't see it pushed that much except through 3Dvia and still it seems Collada is a better known format. Oh, and don't forget Google's O3D. They're all XML-based and with Khronos behind Collada and working with Mozzila to bring open 3D into the browser… it's gonna be interesting to see what happens.
There are two thoughts behind the three XML technologies though, 3Dxml for tech/design/engineering stuff, O3D/Collada (or unnamed 3d web format) for the online gaming/entertainment. anyway, maybe a bit off topic, but interesting.
agreed.
http://www.farskt.com
Hasn't anyone realized that there is also a licensing issued, since SW and Catia are built on 2 different engines? You have to pay extra in KeyCreator to bring in Catia files. (a lot more) Every SW user out there would scream at having to pay another $5K for a translator license.
I must call it a superb message board, I barely care to read out a complete forum section but this message board easily earned my attention and believe me, That’s unusual.
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